Celebrating Autism Through Inclusive Education and Innovative Strategies with Heather Hall

In honor of Autism Awareness and Autism Acceptance Month, this week's episode features a discussion with Heather Hall from Embracing Autism about the statement, "Autism is not a choice, but embracing it is."

This  conversation addresses critical misconceptions, such as the belief that all individuals with autism are cognitively low and that their behaviors are uniform. 

Heather and Jennifer explore effective educational strategies that can significantly benefit individuals with autism such as:

• Structured routines
• Visual schedules 
• Affirmations and celebrations 
• Innovative practices that enhance social and vocational skills but also incorporate academic learning in a practical context

This episode is a call to action for educators, parents, and administrators to foster a deeper understanding and acceptance for individuals with autism. By sharing insights and strategies, this episode aims to inspire and inform stakeholders about supporting individuals with autism in educational settings and beyond, ensuring they are celebrated for their unique abilities and potential.

Listen in as Jennifer and Heather share a message of inclusion and appreciation, urging a shift from mere awareness to active acceptance and support.

Connect with Heather:

Special Needs: Embracing Autism Website

Embracing Autism TPT Store

Instagram

Facebook

Heather Hall is the visionary force behind Special Needs: Embracing Autism, a platform devoted to enriching the lives of individuals navigating autism and other disabilities. With a robust 16-year tenure as a special education teacher in Arizona's public school system, Heather holds both bachelor's and master's degrees in Special Education from Arizona State University. In 2019, she expanded her expertise with a certificate in Applied Behavior Analysis from Ball State University.

Currently serving as a Special Education Professor, Heather channels her extensive experience and insights to educate future generations of special education teachers. Her paramount goal is to cultivate environments that are more inclusive and welcoming to individuals with autism, both within educational institutions and communities at large.

As an advocate and educator, Heather is deeply committed to raising awareness and promoting acceptance. She is dedicated to ensuring that the next wave of special education teachers is fully equipped to skillfully address the diverse needs of their students.

Get your FREE copy of Impact Statement Mastery: Your Step-by-Step Guide to Writing Personalized IEPs.

• Expert tips and strategies,
• Easy-to-follow formats, and
• Real-life examples that bring theory to life.

A must-have for every special education teacher and related service provider. 

Follow Jennifer
Instagram
TPT

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:53

In honor of April's Autism Awareness and Autism Acceptance Month, I want to share a profound statement that my guest had shared on social media and it resonated very deeply with me and, I think, with the special education field in general. But it said that autism is not a choice, but embracing it is. And that's pretty deep and I can't wait for you to hear how my guest, heather Hall, and I unpack this concept and discuss the various misconceptions surrounding autism. Our conversation aims to enlighten and inspire special educators and really all stakeholders parents, teachers, special education teachers, administration on how we can foster a deeper understanding and build unconditional acceptance for individuals with autism. We are going to explore different strategies and celebrate the incredible potential of students with autism and shed light on how we can better support these individuals and their families in our educational systems. So you're not going to want to miss out on this discussion.

Speaker 2: 1:53

You're listening to the Sped Prep Academy podcast. Your host, jennifer Hofferberg, is an award-winning veteran special educator who shares her experience, knowledge and passion to help other special educators survive and thrive in this profession. Join her and other guests as they share tips and tricks of the trade for the ever-crazy, completely overwhelming, laugh-so-you-don't-cry profession of being a special education teacher. Well hi, heather.

Speaker 1: 2:19

Welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Before we jump into all of the questions I have for you, would you share a little bit about your journey within the world of special education and specifically your experience with autism? Sure?

Speaker 3: 2:33

I did not know actually what I wanted to do when I was in school and I just kind of took classes and tried to discover what I wanted to do. And then at the end of one of the semesters, I realized that all the classes that I took were geared towards education. So I said, okay, well, let's dive into that world and see what what happens. And during that time too, I got a job at this place called the Talent Corporation Corporation, and it was an after-school program for individuals with disabilities. I realized my first day there that I want to go into special education. These individuals are amazing, fantastic and I absolutely love them. I worked there while I was going to school and came across a couple of individuals that actually had autism and I realized how wonderful they were, how sweet they were, how excited they were about life and I said that is what I'm going to do. So when I graduated, I started looking for specialized jobs that had students that to work with students with autism, and I came across this one school and they actually sent me to North Carolina for the teach training. That was there, never heard of it. And I came across this one school and they actually sent me to North Carolina for the teach training that was there, never heard of it, and I said, ok, well, let's do this. I went and I fell in love with that model.

Speaker 3: 3:45

Basically, it's a structured teaching model on how to structure your activities, how to structure your stations, and there's a lot of misconceptions with that as well, just because it structures a lot of areas and it kind of partitions things off. I always looked at it as a way to help the student grow. You start them at one area and then they grow and you decrease the partitions and the barriers to get them more included in everything around. It's just to help them get started to learn how to do the work, how to do the different activities that you're having for them. So I was very thankful for that training. I also, you know I have people come up to me and ask about that training and I said you know it's wonderful and I absolutely adore it. I said but you have to look at it too. You don't really realize it.

Speaker 3: 4:35

But even if you don't have a disability, you follow the teach model because part of it is having schedules for the students, having you know things structured out in a certain way, like you write on a calendar that you're going to get a hair appointment. You're going to the grocery store, you have a doctor's appointment. It's the same type of thing that you do with students with autism, except you're doing it in a classroom to help them, to help guide them Right. So that's kind of where I fell in love with autism even more and I just kind of grew from there. So every school that I worked at we used structured teaching and I did it for 16 years and I loved it. We did so many different activities. We started coffee carts out of our classrooms, we did. You know, I like to think outside the box for these students just to get them to do more real life activities. So yeah, I've been, I've taught them for so many years and now I'm currently at the university teaching future special education teachers we definitely need that.

Speaker 1: 5:40

My one of my friends I've never been trained on the teach method or teach model and but one of my friends, um, she was on my teacher of the year team and she did it and it was I. I've seen it in action and it gives those students the structure that they need to be becoming more and more independent. So that statement that you made on social media, um, autism is not a choice, but embracing it is. Can you elaborate on that statement and kind of why you put that out there for the world?

Speaker 3: 6:05

Yeah, sure, so a lot of time I mean most of the time these individuals, they're born with it. They don't know what to expect. They don't even understand it sometimes, and even families, they don't understand why their child, you know, developed autism and sometimes they might not even get diagnosed until later in life. That's not a choice for them, it's just something that they go through and you know for them. We need to help them learn to embrace it. It's an amazing thing to be autistic and to have all these different skills. They're at all different levels. They're amazing individuals. They have a lot to share with the world and we should, as a society, also be embracing it, and not just them. We should be helping them embrace it. We should be embracing it to be more inclusive. It's just. It's important that we do that. Instead of tearing these individuals down or not giving them the opportunities they need, we need to open up to, we need to say, hey, these individuals have, you know, so much to share, whether it's, you know, getting a job and they're, you know, enhancing the workplace for what they do. Yeah, sometimes you know they have struggles with social norms and things like that, but that's okay, we can help, we can embrace what they're doing and just expand the world for them.

Speaker 3: 7:19

I've seen a lot of my students that struggled when they were little and, for example, I had a student that was nonverbal and you know we worked so hard on trying to help him speak and his family struggled with it a lot and I was trying to work with the families to tell them you know what he's amazing, he's wonderful. We need to embrace that and so you know that's kind of as a special educator, that's what we do. We work with the families. It's not just the student, we work with everybody and we work on developing those skills because autism is wonderful, it's a wonderful world to be in and I think that these individuals were just it's just going to flourish wherever they're at.

Speaker 3: 7:58

Yeah, and with that one student that was nonverbal, eventually he's verbal and I do talk to him. Still he's. I believe he's 25 now and I had him when he was in first grade and when I talked to him he talks my ear off. So it's amazing to see where they go from being nonverbal and you know, with their struggles, to where they are now. He works with his dad now in a dealership and does amazing, amazing things there. So yeah, these kids, these adults, they have a lot to share. So I think we need to really give them the opportunities to share it. That way we can see what potential is out there in the world. You never know, they could be that one person that's going to change the world for everybody.

Speaker 1: 8:37

Yeah, you're right, autism is so much more prevalent than I think we realize.

Speaker 1: 8:41

I think there are so many people out there who are on the spectrum and we don't know, because they are able to get through their day and they never do get that diagnosis.

Speaker 1: 8:51

Like you said, they had a brand new little girl who had come from Cuba, never been in school, hadn't had no idea what was going on around her, and she she would cry and scream a little bit but then she would calm down and she was the most precious little thing. And she she had a few, you know, she was kind of self stemming and that she was kind of self harming a little bit on her elbow and and then she just look at you and I just there's so much in there that I just want those teachers to dig out and to start engaging with her and getting her acclimated to school and I'm just excited to see where they can go with her. But that brings another question about the misconceptions that I think that we have a lot of times with people who have autism. So in your experience, what are some of those misconceptions about autism that educators and parents alike should be aware of?

Speaker 3: 9:48

I've seen a lot where over the years that I taught students that were more in a life skills type classroom. But you know they, you know I get so many students and the misconception that I would see is that most students with autism are cognitively low and that's not true at all, not true. So they would always put these students in my in my classroom, which I'm more than welcome to have them in my room. But you want to have them be in a place that's going to support them to the best of their ability and if they are academically high and in a place that's not at that level with them currently that you're working with, it's not going to help them be successful. So that's what we want to do.

Speaker 3: 10:29

I had a student that was in my room and sweet, sweet kid and he came in and it was kind of hard because he was always placed in this type of classroom and he was verbal. He could tell me just about anything and I was and I talked to him about it and you know, I did have those students that you know I taught fourth through sixth grade and most of them were cognitively at like the lower level level, like the first grade level, with the other kids and I noticed that I said he seemed a little bit higher. So I started talking with him and doing some different activities and it kind of broke my heart when I said, and I said, you know what you can do like multiplication, you can do division, whereas my other kids can't. And I said, why aren't you working at this level? Oh, I've always been told that I'm low and dumb and so and I excuse me, why why were you told that?

Speaker 3: 11:23

So I kind of fought and got him in a better placement that was going to help him flourish, and he did. He was also an amazing artist and he's in high school, or he was in high school, I think. He graduated. But he's an artist now and just doing these absolutely amazing things. But because I fought for him, to advocate, to get him into a placement that was better suited, with more inclusion and more of the social skills he was able to flourish, he was able to take those skills.

Speaker 3: 11:51

So I think we really need to like look at these students and find the best placement that's for them, especially in the education field. We don't want to just put them somewhere because, oh, there's an opening in that type of classroom and you know you want to get them the most inclusion and you know sometimes it's hard. I'm not going to lie. I did teach a self-contained class for 16 years and loved it, but I still felt like we needed that inclusion. And for those students that weren't at that level of going into a classroom and doing those skills and activities in there, I would bring the inclusion to my room. So we would do the reverse inclusion. So people were like why would you do that? I said because they still need that inclusion. They look at it as well. They need to be in a gen ed classroom, but not all kids can handle that. So we want to be able to support them to get them to that level and by doing that we need to make sure that we understand the student and understand the levels that they're at.

Speaker 3: 12:46

Now, for me, because I did teach like the life skills classroom with the students that were low cognitively, I really worked on developing those skills to get them into the next class that was a more academic, like autism classroom.

Speaker 3: 12:59

Once they went to that autism classroom then they were put into inclusion most of the day. So it was kind of like we start at one point and we really worked to give them those skills but at that time, because they couldn't go into that classroom due to maybe some behaviors or anxiety or some other kind of issue, we would bring it to them, we would bring that inclusion and I actually had a lot of teachers that were really excited about that. I had a specific teacher that would come in and we would set up the room in a way that we could do stations and they would have their students intertwined with my students and it was such a success. So I think if we really work with those students that maybe aren't at the level yet to be fully inclusive, then we can bring in those gen ed teachers with their students and we can still get that inclusion. It's just going to look a little different and that's okay and that is okay. So we need to work on those levels too to figure that out and get that inclusion.

Speaker 1: 13:54

I love that reverse inclusion concept because I've always felt that there are a lot of kids out there who are neurotypical but they're drawn to students who have special needs and I feel like that's our future special ed teachers that are kind of in training, they want to work with those kids and they want to be there and they want to help them and support them and I think pulling them into your classroom, that was a brilliant idea. I'm a big proponent of having kids with gen ed kids as much as possible, because they're going to be with them in life. Another misconception that I've had, that I've experienced personally, is that my daughter has never been diagnosed. She's 22. She's never been diagnosed. But looking back on her childhood and her high school years, we're, like, you know, as a family, as an immediate family, we're like I think we missed this with her. Not that I've ever would have taken her to get diagnosed, because she is she's, you know, very successful in school. She's very intelligent, but she does. She did have some social issues and she did have some sensory issues.

Speaker 1: 14:54

And that misconception that, um, when we bring it up to like in-laws and things like that, they're like oh no, she's not autistic, she can't be autistic. She doesn't have this characteristic or this characteristic, and I think that people who are in our world don't understand that. The autism spectrum is huge and you could be anywhere any point on that spectrum and there's not. My friend always said if you know one person with autism, you know one person with autism because there's so many differences. So what are some strategies that we can use to celebrate these individuals and to help them become as accepted and as part of the real world as possible?

Speaker 3: 15:36

I think some effective strategies could be. You know, you really need that routine for these individuals. They need to know what to expect by setting up a schedule in the classroom and it's and you think of, just like one one schedule for the day it. That's not just what we need. We need schedules throughout the day, such as you know what you're working with the teacher. What does that look like? Do they have schedules? It could be written, it could be with pictures, it doesn't matter what type of schedule it is. They need that schedule to know what to expect. We don't want to them to get stressed. We want them to have a good understanding of what we're doing in the classroom, whether it's, you know, working in a math station, whether it's a reading station, whether it's one on one with the teacher, whether it's group. We need that on a schedule so that they know, so that they're prepared. We need that on a schedule so that they know, so that they're prepared. And one of the things that I always used to do is when we had our math stations. It would be set up right in front of them, we would have a schedule and it would say OK, number one, you're going to get out this assignment, you're going to do it and then put it in our finish basket. Then you would go to number two and they would just mark it off as they go through each step, kind of like a task analysis, but for everything that they're working on. And that is going to be a game changer for a lot of students. I had students that came in and never knew what a schedule was. So once we put them on that schedule, it helped them have a good understanding of what things need to happen in the room and what's going on. We also need to work on that flexibility too, at the same time. So that's kind of seems like a catch-22. You need that routine, but flexibility is also going to help those students. So when you are, you have that schedule. Sometimes I would like to then say, oh, you know what, we're out of time, we're going to cross this off, but we would do it together. I wouldn't just do it and then not share it with them, and then that would stress them out. So we would do it together and I say, okay, we ran out of time, we're going to cross this off and we're going to go to the next, and then, and you know as we worked on that skill, I would ask them how they're feeling. Are you feeling okay? Because sometimes that does stress them out and if they do, no-transcript at for different strategies.

Speaker 3: 17:54

One thing that I mentioned earlier was a coffee cart. This was something that I did when I taught at the high school and I really wanted to work on social skills with the students. But after I started this I realized it was much more than that. So what I did is I got permission with my principal to do a coffee cart at the school. So what we would do is every Friday we would create our coffee, we would make it in the classroom. I had a little cart. We'd have muffins, we'd have water, orange juice, you name it. We would have it on this cart. We would then go and I'd have the kids push the cart. We'd have little aprons that said Coffee Cart Heroes here, and it was the cutest little thing.

Speaker 3: 18:35

We would go to each classroom.

Speaker 3: 18:37

So we would do this on a Friday, just because that was the easiest time for everybody and all the teachers approved that time.

Speaker 3: 18:43

So we would go first thing in the morning.

Speaker 3: 18:45

After breakfast We'd go down, we would ask the teachers, you know we'd go in and my students would either have a little device that said they'd hit a button that says coffee cart heroes here to serve you, how many? Take your order, and then they would give the menu to the teachers. Now I wanted do I was thinking more of social skills for the students to be able to do this. But once we started I realized we're working on reading skills, we're working on math skills, we're working on being able to manage a cart by pushing it, so we're getting that like OT part of things as well. And it was a huge eye opener for where these students started at the beginning of the year to where we ended. I had students that were just so excited that once they got to because we also did it at the office once they got to the office, they'd sit there and chat with the office people and asking them their orders and I'm like, okay, we have to go back to class and they're like one minute.

Speaker 3: 19:36

I'm still talking, so that I mean that was huge a game changer, definitely. Plus, we were working on, you know, trying to get you know, more inclusivity. We'd have students in other classes, the gen ed classes, come and help support the students now and again when we were doing this and at one point we actually had a volunteer come over to me and say that she saw this and was curious on what we were doing. So I explained it to her and she was just absolutely amazed by everything she saw. We offered her something. One of the kids went up to her and at the time it was. It was hard because we were still a new program at the school and people were a little iffy about having us there.

Speaker 3: 20:15

This changed a lot of people's perception, insight into what we were doing and, absolutely amazing, she actually donated like $100 to our coffee cart just to get us supplies.

Speaker 3: 20:26

So it was very nice and it kind of just spread throughout the school and some parents even came in just to see and to get their orders taken and things like that, and it really helped bring our program to the school and get people involved, not even just the school but the community. So I was very thankful for that. So you just never know, when you're thinking like outside the box for doing certain things with these students, that it could just be like a game changer for that school and just bring everybody together and then that inclusion starts. So so, yeah, so that's another thing that, um, as a strategy, is always thinking outside the box, some things you might not think about, but it's, you know, a great tool to have.

Speaker 3: 21:08

Another thing that we did that, um, I thought was great is we talked about michelangelo, and so one of the things you know was I think he was the one that did the 16th chapel up on the ceiling. I had students that were really intrigued by that and some that weren't, which is understandable, not everybody's going to like that concept and we watched like a little video on him and I said I said why don't we draw like Michelangelo? And I had students questioning me because they're like where are we getting a ladder? How are we going to climb on the ceiling? And I said we're not going to climb on the you know the ceiling. And I said we're not going to do it that way.

Speaker 3: 21:46

I put paper underneath our horseshoe table I lowered the horseshoe table, we laid underneath it and we drew that way up on the wall or up on the the table, huge, huge, our um. During that time, our OT came in and she's like, oh my gosh, this is great skills for them. But they also got to draw upside down, which was something that they never got to do. And we're drawing on a table, upside down on paper, and so it was.

Speaker 3: 22:02

It was a great strategy that we were doing and it brought out communication with the students. They started talking about what they're drawing. I even had the principal come in and lay on the floor and do it with them, so that was even a fun activity. So that was something that we ended up doing every week and it opened up and it, you know, these kids started sharing their feelings about what they're doing and they absolutely loved it. So thinking outside the box is definitely a strategy that is going to really help create different activities. When you're also using those like evidence based practices, you want to do that as well as trying to come up with new ideas for these kids, because sometimes what works with one kid isn't going to work with the other, and being different is going to really help them grow.

Speaker 1: 22:44

I've seen IEPs where the goal has been the same for year after year after year and it's just so frustrating because these kids have so much more and they need so much more than to just sit down and be able to add, you know, naked numbers. Those opportunities for kids are amazing and, you're right, they provide them with so many different skills that we probably never even think of. I did a coffee cart as well, and that was. I just did it with one student and that was so beneficial for him. And, yeah, I totally agree with what you're saying about thinking outside the box. So, because this is Autism Awareness and Autism Acceptance Month, I want to try to think about how we can celebrate the potential. What kinds of things can we do for students who have autism that shows that we are celebrating them and that we acknowledge them when we see them, know, appreciate the individual personalities that they are?

Speaker 3: 23:41

One of the things that I love to do in the classroom when I'm celebrating the student. It shouldn't just be one month, they should be celebrated every day for all the amazing things they do. So what I always like to do is positive affirmations, and some students you know it was hard they wanted, they didn't have a lot of self-esteem, and so this was something that I really felt that these students needed. We did it throughout the day. If I noticed that they were struggling a little bit, I would say, hey, let's stop for a second and let's chant, and I would call it chanting, because that was easier for them to understand, and what I would say is on the count of three, one, two, three, I rock. And then everybody would do I rule, I'm fabulous, I'm amazing and we would do that throughout the day and they just loved it and it kind of started to build them up and you can see the more positive positivity in them. But I looked at it too, as you shouldn't have to build it up, you should already have it. So we're just going to keep doing that.

Speaker 3: 24:34

I always call them my superheroes, and we did a lot of superhero themes in the classroom and one of the things that I love to do is create comic books with the students and throughout the whole entire school year I would photograph them.

Speaker 3: 24:48

I've got little capes and things like that, so I would call them like superheroes in trainings and in this book I would actually Photoshop them in with, like Captain America and all the Marvel characters, shazam, and these characters are showing them how to be superheroes and how to focus on different things and helping others, and at the end we would have them all standing there, you know, putting their arms up and, like you know, saying that I rule in the comic book, with the superheroes saying you're right, you do, you are no longer in training, you are superheroes. And then I would give them to the parents and the parents just absolutely loved it and I told, and one of the parents asked me well, why, why did I do that? I said one I love photography and that was just something that I wanted to do. I love to photograph, and so I would do that for everything that we're doing, whether it was work, whether it was. We were outside on the playground and, of course, I did get permission to do this ahead of time.

Speaker 3: 25:42

I just didn't take pictures randomly, but I did that to show the parents how amazing they were. One of the comic books I did was they saved the school supplies from the evil monsters or something like that, and so they were fighting them and I would have them punching in the air and then I'd put pal there to stop the superhero or to stop the villains, and it was. It was great to see, and I also loved that the students wanted to get involved, and so they started to realize more, too, that I am a superhero. I can do whatever I can, and so this was just my way of celebrating them throughout the year and encouraging them to celebrate themselves, to see how amazing they are. It didn't matter that, you know, we were a life skills class or we were an academic class, it doesn't matter. You are an individual. Yes, you have autism. You are amazing, you are fantastic, and we're going to celebrate you throughout the year, and this is how we're. This was one of the big ways that I'd like to do that. That and then. Then you know I do celebrations every day whether it was something small that they accomplished.

Speaker 3: 26:44

My favorite was when we were working on math and this. We were doing this um addition, and we've been doing it for a year, I think, and the student just wasn't getting it. One day he turned and looked at me and he says aha. And I said, oh, aha, what is that about he? He says look, and then he filled it. He did two problems with no help, and I said I said you just did that. He said yes, I get it. I said, oh my gosh. I said how do you feel? He says amazing. And I said well, you should. And so I got up and started dancing and chanting. Yeah, you did it. So I I always make a fool out of myself in the classroom, and that's okay, because I want them to know how proud of them I am and that's how I do it I get up, I dance, I chant, I sing. I get them up, we dance. It may have been something little, but that little thing is going to help them progress throughout everything that they're going to be working on.

Speaker 3: 27:30

So we need to celebrate every little milestone that they, that they do, and it doesn't matter how little it is because it's just going to help them progress and feel good about themselves that they're going to be able to do more as they continue. So, yeah, celebrating them every day is definitely something that should be done?

Speaker 1: 27:47

Yeah, shouldn't be just a month. I feel like the progression from autism awareness and now you know the pendulum has swung to more of an autism acceptance, and maybe I'm wrong here, but I feel like that that's more for the parent side of it that parents sometimes feel like their child is different and, because their child is different, that they're not as accepted and they're not seen as a kid, they're seen with a disability, and so I feel like we've got to do a good job of making sure that parents and just like you, giving them that comic book. That means a lot to parents who have children with autism or any child with a disability. It's just, it makes them feel like they are the same as everyone else and I think that's very important.

Speaker 3: 28:31

Yeah, no, I agree, I know I had parents that you know they struggled with understanding the diagnosis, so we would you know as a team, you would talk to them about it and tell them that we're here if you need anything. I've had parents come to me, you know, about issues with maybe showering that their child, you know, was all of a sudden. You know bathing when they were younger, but now that they're getting older, we want them to shower.

Speaker 3: 28:51

And so I said that's OK, just tell me what you need, whether it's a goal or not. So I would create like steps, like a task analysis on what they need to do for the showers, because I'm not about to do that in the classroom because we don't have showers. But I created like a social book why we are a social story, why we need to shower, what the importance of it is, what that's going to look like, and I'd send that home. You know, parents would be like that's a game changer for us. He's now showering independently because he needed that structure to be able to do it, and so it's just.

Speaker 3: 29:21

You know, helping the parents realize certain things is just going to make a game changer for them. You know, you have some of those parents that get it from the start, but then there's some that are like this is my first kid that's been diagnosed. What do I do? How do I handle it? And so we just have to be there to help them. Sometimes it's like we're a psychologist trying to figure out everything, but as educators, we are educating not only the student but the family as well.

Speaker 1: 29:44

Yeah, yeah, I couldn't have said that any better. That's exactly right. I think we have to remember that, as special educators, we're not just educating the kids. We need to be educating the parents, because they don't know, and if you want your kids to be successful in your classroom, they've got to be successful at home too. You've got to be working together Very important. So if we wanted to learn more from you, where could we find you out in social media?

Speaker 3: 30:08

You can find me on Special Needs Embracing Autism. That is my website and on that website I have links to my Instagram Facebook page and other social media that is on there.

Speaker 1: 30:20

So, yeah, all right. Well, thank you so much for a great conversation. Oh, thank you for having me. It was fun.